This post was originally published on Astrology Hub
Listen here:
[embedded content]
In this episode of the Astrology Hub podcast 🚀
In this episode of the Astrology Hub Podcast, Amanda Pua Walsh sits down with renowned astrologer, author, and philosopher Richard Tarnas. Known for his groundbreaking works, The Passion of the Western Mind and Cosmos and Psyche, Rick shares insights on astrology’s gifts and challenges, its role in shaping individual and collective understanding, and its future amid technological advancements. This intimate conversation highlights his profound wisdom and humility, offering listeners a glimpse into his unique approach to astrology and life.
What You’ll Learn in This Episode:
🎁The Gifts of Astrology: How astrology opens the doorway to understanding the universe’s archetypal patterns and enriches personal and collective growth.
🚩The Challenges of Being an Astrologer: Navigating societal skepticism and internal biases while maintaining integrity and humility.
📖Astrological Wisdom for the Future: Rick’s perspective on the major planetary transits shaping the coming years and their potential impact on humanity.
🎯Personal Development Through Astrology: The importance of ongoing self-work and community support in deepening one’s astrological practice.
🌐Astrology and Technology: The role of AI and technology in the future of astrology and the irreplaceable value of human interpretation.
🦋The Spiritual Adventure of Life: Why we forget our divine origins and the joy of rediscovering our purpose through life’s challenges and discoveries.
💌 You’re Invited! Join us for our 9th Annual Forecast Event for 2025! Join Amanda and 6 top astrologers for our 9th annual 2025 Forecast Event. This FREE event features Rick Levine, Christopher Renstrom, Georgia Stathis, Adam Gainsburg, Stormie Grace, and Andrea Michelle. You can reserve your free spot at www.astrologyhub.com/2025Forecast.
Only those that register will get the link to join and access to the limited-time replay. Be sure to invite your friends and go into 2025 resourced and prepared!
Transcript:
00:00:01:08 – 00:00:28:00
Laura
Have you heard the news? It’s our biggest hail the year. Now through December 2nd, you can save 40% off of courses in our academy, including classes from legends in astrology like Judith Hill, Adam Ginsberg, Rick Levine, Rick Tarnas, Georgia Stathis, and so many more. Just go to the astrology webcomic Black Friday to take advantage of this offer. Now sit back, relax and enjoy the episode.
00:00:28:02 – 00:00:54:24
Amanda
Well, hello friend, and welcome to the Astrology Hub podcast. I am so grateful that you’re here that you’ve decided to tune into this very important episode. Now, those of us who are into astrology may or may not know that there are many people who pioneered the way for us to be able to indulge our love of astrology, our curiosity about our chart.
00:00:55:01 – 00:01:27:15
Amanda
And I love the opportunity to shine the spotlight on these individuals. Today we have a very special person who has contributed so much to the field of astrology, and what we’re going to do is have a little bit of an intimate fireside conversation with this incredible astrologer, author, historian Richard Tarnas.
00:01:27:17 – 00:01:59:03
Amanda
I’m going to give you a little bit of his background, but before I do that, his contributions to astrology and his background is very impressive. And one of the things that has impressed me the most is how genuinely kind this man is. Every single person who has had the opportunity to engage with him on our team at Astrology Hub always comes back and says, Rick Tarnas is so sweet.
00:01:59:08 – 00:02:29:05
Amanda
He’s so kind. He’s so professional. And I think that that just speaks volumes about the intelligence of his heart that matches the incredible intellect that he has brought to this field of astrology. So I’m going to tell you a little bit about that as well. He is a founding director of the Graduate Program in Philosophy, Cosmology and Consciousness at the California Institute of Integral Studies in San Francisco, where he currently teaches.
00:02:29:07 – 00:03:12:15
Amanda
He got his undergrad from Harvard. He studied with Stanislav Graff, Joseph Campbell, Gregory Beatson, and James Hellman, later serving as Salon’s Director of Programs and Education. He received his PhD from Saybrook Institute in 1976 with a dissertation on LSD, psychotherapy, psychoanalysis, and Spiritual Transformation. He wrote The Passion of the Western Mind and Cosmos and Psyche, imitations, intimations. I did this last time of a New World view, for which he received the book of the year prize from the Scientific and Medical Network in the UK.
00:03:12:17 – 00:03:38:23
Amanda
So, as I was saying, his intellectual contributions are massive and he’s an incredibly beautiful human being as well. So I am so grateful to have this opportunity as part of our Legends in Astrology series, to get to know Rick Tarnas better, and to share some of the journey of his life and the insights that he’s collected throughout the years with all of you.
00:03:39:00 – 00:03:46:10
Amanda
So again, thank you all for being here. And Rick. Thank you for being here and for this opportunity to connect with you in this way.
00:03:46:12 – 00:04:02:24
Richard
You’re more than welcome. Amanda. And I have to say, after that introduction, I think we should just stop here. And, I, I’m never going to, add anything of, value to impressions that people have of right now. I have to buy that.
00:04:03:01 – 00:04:23:02
Amanda
I have to add that every person on the team who inc engages with you, including myself, including myself, also comments on how humble you are. So I knew you were going to do that. And I knew in some ways I was going to embarrass you, but I had to do it. And it’s all very, very, very true. Okay, so Rick, let’s just dive in.
00:04:23:04 – 00:04:49:23
Amanda
We’ve I’ve been content planning questions to ask you. I asked our inner circle members, I asked our staff. And so there’s been a lot of, a lot of thought gone that has gone into the questions that we’re going to ask you today. So I’d love to start with this one. What are the best and most challenging aspects from your perspective of being an astrologer?
00:04:50:00 – 00:05:22:19
Richard
That’s a great question. Partly because it is it is holding, the two sides of of being an astrologer, so clearly right in it. And, certainly the among the best, features of being an astrologer. Gifts, really, that come with this, the fact of, being given the opportunity to enter into, in some sense the, the soul, the universe, the inner workings of it.
00:05:22:19 – 00:06:12:12
Richard
Like, what are the great archetypal factors and powers that are at work in our lives, but also, are connected to the, the planets and the and the the stars and the movements of the planets. It’s a cosmic privilege, really. And I think it’s sort of easy after a while, as an astrologer, to start to take that for granted and just get into calculations, interpretations, textbooks or online software interpretations or whatever, or your own, readings, etc. and kind of losing, that beginner’s mind recognition of, wow, this is a whole universe that is just opened up to me, an inner universe, but it connects me to the outer universe in a whole new way
00:06:12:12 – 00:06:49:02
Richard
as well. And, so that’s a that’s a great privilege, to have and to be able to, as a result of that gift, an invitation to enter into the the mystery of astrology, the fact that we can use that information to live our lives more, more skillfully, more consciously, more compassionately, with ourselves and with others as we as we see other people’s birth charts and and what’s what’s happening for them, including their their transits and so forth.
00:06:49:02 – 00:07:14:10
Richard
What’s getting activated? Oh, we can get a little perspective on why they may be going through this or, or that. And, and that helps, bring in a, a level of, of reflection to our everyday life and to our relationships that can really enhance the love in our lives and a greater sense of understanding and peace and so forth.
00:07:14:13 – 00:07:33:00
Richard
So those are those are huge gifts. I’ll just take one more gift. I could we could spend the next hour on the gifts of astrology. Honestly, I have explored, you know, that the first book that you mentioned that I wrote, The Passion of the Western Mind, is a history of the Western worldview from the ancient Greeks right up to the postmodern.
00:07:33:00 – 00:08:04:01
Richard
So I’m I’m addressing a lot of fields, disciplines, academic fields, but, you know, ways of understanding the universe, different worldviews, etc.. And I have to say, of all the different, disciplines that I have, studied in my life, astrology is the one that sort of shines a light on everything else. And, continues to serve as a kind of allure, in a sense.
00:08:04:01 – 00:08:52:12
Richard
And and it’s not something one has to work at once drawn to it, because. Oh, I can’t wait to see what having just seen a film, for example, I can’t wait to see what that director, what their birth chart looks like and, and that that actor or actress and or hearing a song or a symphony or whatever. All those immediately invite me to look into the what’s going on astrology, because that just opens up a whole new level of appreciation for what’s happening, understanding of the, bigger picture of of the unfolding of history and, the esthetic qualities of a particular, work of music or, or a novel or poetry or or
00:08:52:12 – 00:09:38:16
Richard
painting. And so, yeah, all all of those are just continuing, gifts that keep on giving, really. That’s an initial overview of some of the gifts, the challenges, first of all, because astrology is still regarded as, taboo by the, mainstream, high culture, you know, the academic, scientific, you know, most I mean, I have to say, in the last 20, 30 years that has started to, to shift and, you know, more and more each decade, but by and large, astrology is like the gold standard of superstition in our culture.
00:09:38:21 – 00:10:19:15
Richard
If you want to say that something’s not worth studying because it’s totally intellectual nonsense, then you compare it to astrology, like, that’s no better than astrology. So it takes a certain capacity inside, depending on where you know what profession you’re in or what, what your family or community thinks is the ultimate truth of the universe or whatever it may be, a a big challenge to hold your center, hold your ground, and and not completely doubt what you’re doing or internal lies the critique.
00:10:21:06 – 00:11:19:04
Richard
And then what often happens is people internalize the disdain that the mainstream culture might have towards astrology and then having internalized it, but suppressed it into the unconscious. Then sometimes astrologers could overreact by being arrogant or, presuming a kind of omniscience when they’re giving a reading as if they’re, getting a kind of direct transmission from, from God about what this person should be doing in their life because they’ve got that transit or that natal aspect or whatever, or whether this relationship should, be encouraged or cut off right now because those charts don’t get, you know, that kind of exaggerated self-esteem is a kind of compensatory inflation that is
00:11:19:04 – 00:11:51:16
Richard
trying to compensate for the for the inferiority feelings that the culture can impose on a person if they don’t have enough self-confidence. Now, where does this where does this self-confidence come from to, meet that challenge? I think, two things. One, one is find your astrological community. There’s a lot of and you have you have created one with Astrology Hub and also local communities as well.
00:11:53:02 – 00:12:31:16
Richard
A lot of people come from there, isolated, skeptical environment into an astrological conference or, into, you know, podcasts like this and conversations with, with, you know, that are on the, on the chat comments and so forth. And they suddenly feel like, oh, thank God there’s other people who, can who who are seeing what I’m seeing, who recognize this, this universe that’s open to our perception, but seems to be, blocked off from so many people that I know and that, negate what I’m doing.
00:12:31:18 – 00:13:11:10
Richard
So community serves as a real, kind of healing and and bolstering, supportive way of dealing with that kind of, challenge. And the other biggest, I think, response that you can bring to that challenge is to do your own research with, care, with faithfulness to, the details and to the rigor and, and, and bring as much of your, your critical intelligence as well as your, you know, disciplined imagination, your discipline and, capacity for symbolic discernment, your psychological discernment.
00:13:11:16 – 00:13:49:08
Richard
Bring that to your astrological, research your day after day, month after month, year after year, until you have an inner assurance that doesn’t need the affirmation from the kind of projected parent figure, of the well, at last, the sign, the scientists are saying astrology is right, and I, I needed that to know what I’m doing is good, but there’s still a kind of projection of parental authority on the mainstream cultural academic authorities.
00:13:49:08 – 00:14:15:13
Richard
That, in turn, reflects one’s own insecurity from not not having done enough of the exploration of the evidence that’s out there, and that every one of us has available till you have your own confidence. So that was a long answer. But I, you know, hopefully it it touches on some of the, of the main, privileges and, and challenges that come with being an astrologer.
00:14:15:15 – 00:14:16:04
Richard
Wow.
00:14:16:09 – 00:14:33:13
Amanda
What I feel like from that one answer alone, there are so many different paths we could go down. So many questions I could ask you. What are some of the biggest lessons that you’ve learned as an astrologer over the years?
00:14:33:15 – 00:15:20:16
Richard
I think as I kept researching and I suppose, one thing was to realize that in the excitement of my first year or two of seeing the evidence and being kind of blown away by the correlations and so forth, it’s almost impossible not to make this mistake. So I kind of forgive myself for it. But if you’ve only seen, let’s say, 100 or 200 birth charts, you have a less nuanced, deeply experienced knowledge of what the larger universe, of how all of these planetary aspects can come through, how the how different transits and natal charts, etc. can come through.
00:15:20:19 – 00:16:00:15
Richard
And so maybe one lesson was to take on a certain humility in terms of the level of my knowledge, so that I, I kept being open to having earlier understandings transformed or enhanced in some way or, amended in some way. So those are all there. There’s a, a natural inflation that does happen in the excitement of, of the first, you know, just like when you when you fall in love, there is nobody else in the universe that is as incredible as this person you just fallen in love with.
00:16:00:15 – 00:16:41:03
Richard
And, you know, gradually in a, in an ideal love relationship, you continue to see the, the divine beauty of, of the person that you, you are in love with, but you also are able to integrate that with a more nuanced, complex multi. You know, there’s light and shadow, we’re all human. So it’s the same kind of thing when you initially get into astrology and start seeing, for yourself, your the correlations one can exaggerate the universality of what you’ve discovered.
00:16:41:05 – 00:17:14:02
Richard
And and having seen say something 3 or 4 times and you go, oh, this is how that works. And then only later after you’ve seen the same pattern over in, you know, several hundred times and you go, oh, there’s a wider variety of ways in which that can come through and that brings that brings a little bit of, sense of, of modesty about the current state of our knowledge and a curiosity and willingness to keep, expanding our understanding.
00:17:14:04 – 00:17:46:14
Amanda
Rick, where do you see astrologers kind of getting themselves into trouble? And you’ve you’ve mentioned a few things that I think you might refer to, like over confidence or over, you know, generalization based on just a few observations over excitement and maybe not paying attention to as much nuance. But is there anything else you’ve observed in astrologers over time that you think it’s really important for us to be aware of as we’re learning and growing in the skill of of astrology?
00:17:46:16 – 00:18:48:12
Richard
I, I think some of what is probably the, the, the most important range of responses that I would ask new astrologers or any astrologer, to, to be conscious of is that we have a tendency to read into because we’re human and everything we’re doing is an interpretation. And of course, astrologers are interpreting the the birth chart and the data and, the, transits and so forth, and even those who have done a lot of astrological readings and have done a lot of, astrological study, etc. being human, they can project material from their own psyche, from their own unconscious that that they have not worked through yet.
00:18:48:14 – 00:19:32:01
Richard
And you see this when, when people, when astrologers give, let’s say, a one sided negative view of a hard aspect, transit that’s coming up and just kind of saying, oh, no, it’s too bad you’re going to be having this or you might already be in that transit. The the client might already be in that transit. And all the astrologers thinking about, well, it’ll be should be over, you know, by this date or by, within the next year or so, as if there wasn’t a deeper meaning to that transit that needed to be taken in, and not just endured until it was gone.
00:19:33:11 – 00:20:15:09
Richard
If we haven’t worked out our own relationship to Saturn or to Pluto or something like that in a way that where we’ve done enough inner work, where we where we’ve done enough, whether it’s therapy or meditation or deep self-reflection or, growing through relationships because any intimate relationship, you’re going to grow from and then become a deeper, person if you haven’t done and enough of that, in order to be able to look at a at a birth chart and recognize that there is light and shadow in every everything, and that there is a there is a nobility in every single birth chart.
00:20:15:13 – 00:20:52:13
Richard
And there is important meaning and purpose in every single personal transit we go through, and every world transit that we’re all going through. If one is still sort of phobic about certain planets, planetary energies, or if we overreact to, things that we haven’t resolved from our own childhood or relationships with our parents or, or ones the X axis or whatever, then we’ll tend to read that into the interpretation that will we’re giving to another person.
00:20:52:15 – 00:21:24:11
Richard
And that can, that can be wounding for that person. It could limit their, their, their, their sense of what’s possible for them. So that’s probably the the most important thing I would I would just encourage all of us to constantly be doing our own work so that we become more pure vessels of what, what the cosmos may be, revealing through us to this, to this person that we’re giving counsel to.
00:21:25:10 – 00:21:56:05
Amanda
How would someone know if they’re falling into that, that kind of trap of projecting their own inner anxiety or trauma or turmoil or whatever it is? I mean, one thing, as you were speaking, I was thinking, well, I guess if you ever look at a chart or a transit and you only see negative or you only see positive, that’s probably you’re glossing over and probably it’s something from within you that you’re you’re projecting out.
00:21:56:07 – 00:22:19:08
Richard
That’s right. I think that that would be probably the first red flag that you could get is, wow, everything I said about that person’s upcoming transit is negative. I wonder what’s going on there. And, that’s a perfect response to your question that you gave both sides of the the the question and the answer. Okay.
00:22:19:08 – 00:22:52:03
Richard
Here, here, here is another big, big thing that I think all astrologers can benefit from keeping mindful of. I know this is this is true of myself and would be advice that I could give myself. 40, 50 years ago. And that is there’s a, there’s a, a strong desire by people who come to you for counsel and that desire is in our cells to to predict the future.
00:22:52:05 – 00:23:17:02
Richard
We want to be able to better if we know what’s going to happen. Well, we’re just going to feel more secure. We can maybe control the outcome better, etc.. The problem is, is that life is not to be controlled. It’s it’s to be, navigated within. It’s to be it’s it’s it’s it’s it’s more of a dance than a conquest kind of.
00:23:17:04 – 00:23:58:12
Richard
And, and so I think astrology is really, really first of all, it’s probably the, the most valuable instrument for the understanding of what has happened and what’s happening right now. That, that that retrospective understanding to bring in the the astrological perspective where you can see what archetypal powers and combinations and complexes were at work at any given time and in which people in, in, in no, different eras and so forth, are different periods of our lives we call.
00:23:58:12 – 00:24:31:09
Richard
Oh, wow. Now, I understand that part of my life so much better, you know, or that relationship so much better. And then, and at the same time, being human, we we we’re we’re anticipating the future. We’re planning all the time. We want to, we we want to survive, we want to flourish, etc.. And so there’s a natural tendency when a lot of people come together in astrology reading, they’re basically wanting to know their financial and romantic fortunes for the next year.
00:24:32:09 – 00:25:10:12
Richard
And that’s, number one, not necessarily the, the, the greatest treasure of knowledge that they could be getting from, an astrological reading and the second thing is there’s a a strong tendency, part of being human, but it’s also it’s been part of the astrological tradition to be more literal, more, concretely predictive and saying, oh, if you have this transit and look at your chart, then this is what’s going to happen.
00:25:10:14 – 00:25:36:09
Richard
Astrologers can take the symbolism that’s that’s given to them from astrology and then read into it a concrete interpretation. I mean, in the, you know, you see it in lots of old textbooks of the, of the ancients, medieval like, oh, this person will die young. That person will have a, will be wealthy. That person will have an unhappy marriage.
00:25:36:09 – 00:26:05:07
Richard
This this person will not have any children. That’s a all those kinds of things. And for years I would give readings to people who were wounded by other astrologers who had said things that like that, like, oh, you can never have a child, because if you do this negative thing could happen or whatever, just because of some particular understanding of a particular planet in a specific house.
00:26:05:13 – 00:26:31:13
Richard
And I remember, Rob hand was, I came up to Rob hand. We were both at a conference like 80, over 40 years ago. And I heard, a the lecture had given one of those overly specific, anybody who has something in this range of degrees and that sign, is going to have, sexual abuse in their childhood.
00:26:31:15 – 00:26:56:11
Richard
Just absolute statement like that. And I saw a young person, a young woman in the next row in front of me just blanched when she’s hearing that. And I came up to her at the next break and just said, and Rob hand happened to be close by. And, I said to this young woman, I just said, don’t listen to that.
00:26:56:16 – 00:27:24:05
Richard
Astrology is not concretely predictive like that. It’s it’s archetypally predictive. And there’s many ways that that particular house position and range of degrees are in a sign or whatever, can come through. And, that was not a responsible statement. And I think it’s a misunderstood standing of astrology. And Rob hand said that to me, that that phrase that astrology is not concretely predictive.
00:27:24:05 – 00:28:12:13
Richard
It’s archetypally predictive, because then you’re bringing in the larger, multivalent rainbow spectrum of ways that any given archetypal, combination or archetype can come through. He said. That’s that’s exactly, exactly right. And I, I mean, I was pretty young at that point, and I looked up to Rob, as I still do, of course. As a, anyway, I just remember that that exchange and it reflects, what I do think is a, a problematic, temptation that, that astrologers can fall into, which is to make overly, literal deterministic forecasts.
00:28:12:15 – 00:28:43:03
Richard
And I think there’s, there’s ways of speaking delicately and, in a, an adequately, open minded way about the future, because we do see, you know, we know where the planets are going to be, you know, years in advance and rate day to day. It’s just amazing. But circumstances shift that will shape how that transit comes through.
00:28:44:11 – 00:29:07:17
Richard
And a person can go through growth that will shift how it comes through next time compared to how it came through last time. Like a Saturn return, the second Saturn return could be quite different from the first depending on the and the growth of the that person and many other factors. So that’s, that’s you know, hopefully a gesture at a response to your, your excellent question.
00:29:07:19 – 00:29:32:10
Amanda
Yeah. It brings me to this next question, which is just a tiny nuance on what we were just talking about. And maybe you’ve answered it, but where does the role of bias come in? To a astrologers chart reading, is it avoidable? Is it just human that there’s always going to be some level of bias? What’s your thoughts and experience with that?
00:29:32:12 – 00:30:15:12
Richard
Because we are human, there’s always we’re always, in, we’re always seeing things through our particular kind of lenses, you know, that which have been shaped by our childhood, our, our, our biography, our, our, our work on ourselves or lack thereof, our, our, our karma, all sorts of things have gone into shaping the worldview and, kind of like the interpretive lenses on those, like, we all have contact lenses that we don’t know we have on because, they’re always on and we’re always seeing through them.
00:30:15:14 – 00:30:40:11
Richard
And it takes a kind of, sudden gestalt shift, a sudden paradigm, shift where you you, you all of a sudden awakening like, oh, my God, I see this. I see the bias that I had all this time, about, you know, about this phenomenon or that type of person or this category of human human being.
00:30:40:13 – 00:31:22:04
Amanda
So it okay if it’s on some level, always going to be there? We don’t actually we have contact lenses on that we don’t even know we have on. We’re how do we keep ourselves in check to make sure that that, that those biases aren’t influencing the reading that we’re giving to an individual or the reading that we’re giving on a global event, or, you know, any, any of those times where bias can come in and really filter the way that we’re I guess this kind of comes back to what you were saying about predictions, because I guess it really it really comes in a lot in when people are trying to make predictions about what’s
00:31:22:04 – 00:31:26:07
Amanda
going to happen, either for an individual or for the world.
00:31:26:09 – 00:32:02:03
Richard
Yeah, because it’s a blank slate. And so you project onto the blank slate too much from from the subjective lens that you’re looking through. Well, some of the remedies for that are one, being in an enduring relationship with our children, with our with our, our, our beloved, our partner, spouse, friends, any close relationship that is a genuine relationship is going to constantly be acting as a kind of corrective to some of our egotistical radiance.
00:32:03:03 – 00:32:39:07
Richard
And so that’s, that’s that’s one thing. Secondly, you know, doing, doing that kind of, you know, doing, journeying, meditation, taking time for like self-reflection, etc. those are all, possible, correctives that, that, that we can, that we can use. And just being, just being aware that our very best efforts are still going to be limited, that we’re never going to completely correct for our interpretive biases, which but this brings up an important point.
00:32:39:09 – 00:33:10:20
Richard
So many of our biases are our would be visible from a God’s eye point of view in our birth chart. So more understanding of your birth chart does help. Like, oh, that’s my my Mars Neptune, conjunction at work or my Jupiter Venus is coming through and and etc.. There’s there’s many ways in which if we know the astrology well enough and we can just allow that mirror to come the applied to ourselves that that can be a corrective.
00:33:10:22 – 00:33:53:14
Richard
And then the other thing to keep in mind is those same aspects. They not only create potential biases of perception, they also, make possible certain avenues of vision and, action that would not otherwise be available to us a in a in a very positive way. So that one way I, I put it is to think that any given planetary, configuration that we have in our birth chart, you know, it connects to an archetypal complex of some sort that has a range of possible ways of coming through.
00:33:53:16 – 00:34:23:24
Richard
Now, an archetypal complex can can create walls to our vision that we can’t see or, and we can’t move beyond. But they are it also gives us doors. An archetypal gives us doors to, entering into, into, dimensions that wouldn’t be available to us if we didn’t have that aspect. And it opens up windows where we can see things that other people might not see us clearly.
00:34:24:01 – 00:34:53:19
Richard
So that’s why when you when you’re looking at the birth chart of, say, a great psychologist or whatever, there’s certain things that they are seeing more clearly than anybody else had up until then in the, in the, lineage of, of psychologists. And it’s reflected in their birth chart like this is what what young was able to see or this is what, Melanie Klein or Freud or James Hillman or whoever was able to, recognize.
00:34:53:23 – 00:35:29:04
Richard
But at the same time, in seeing that so brilliantly, it also somehow, narrowed their vision so that they didn’t see this, they couldn’t see this. And they over, emphasized what they could see and made that the universal truth. So that’s that’s a way in which we can keep in mind that we, with every one of our, horoscopes, configurations, it’s giving us doors and windows that we have uniquely been given.
00:35:29:06 – 00:35:57:20
Richard
And at the same time, it does create, walls and ceilings that we that we might not be able to, penetrate and not be aware that we’re locked into them until, it’s corrected by either some something else in our chart. Or, or these other kind of corrective experiences that I was talking about through relationships, through, journeys, inner work, etc..
00:35:57:22 – 00:35:59:17
Richard
00:35:59:19 – 00:36:24:21
Amanda
And is another reason why sharing our perspective and then also being open to other people’s perspectives can probably fill in those gaps for us and make sure that we’re, you know, we’re not getting stuck in a rigid way of seeing things. It reminds me of that. I don’t know if it’s a parable or a story or something where they talk about the elephant and how we’re all looking at different aspects of the elephant going, no, it’s an ear.
00:36:24:21 – 00:36:31:03
Amanda
No, it’s a it’s a hook. No, it’s a, you know, but it’s just we’re all looking at the same thing but from different vantage points.
00:36:31:04 – 00:36:38:13
Richard
Right? Yeah. The seven, the seven, Indian wise men and the blind, blind men and the elephants. Something like that.
00:36:38:14 – 00:36:40:08
Amanda
Yes, yes, yes, exactly. Okay.
00:36:40:08 – 00:36:42:12
Richard
Touching a different thing, the trunk and the.
00:36:42:14 – 00:37:13:06
Amanda
Yeah, exactly. And trying to describe what they’re seeing. And so again, that the, the need both to understand that we only see things through our perspective and that others hold keys that could open up some of those doors, like you were just saying. Yeah. Yes. Beautiful. You brought up another word. The word was lineage. And so I would love to ask you, who have been the biggest influences on your work, especially as it relates to the astrology that you practice?
00:37:13:08 – 00:37:50:05
Richard
Sure. Yeah, I think I think, it’s it’s kind of important in, in a way, as, as astrologers who are getting, in the later years of their, their journey, speak about the astrologers from the, from the past that, were really influential in opening up their vision and shaping it, so that it can kind of create a greater sense of continuity and, and a sense of the ancestors and the ancestry that we that we, we, we belong to.
00:37:50:07 – 00:38:41:03
Richard
Certainly for me, I mean, young was was the first, person who’s, who’s, writing, opened me up to the possibility that astrology, worked. And in the long run, young also very much affected, my, archetypal, understanding in general and in the realm of psychology and approach to life generally. But the writers who were especially influential in the beginning were Dane Rudhyar and Mark Edmund Jones from the early part of the 20th century, going earlier part and then and going into the, into the 60s with, well, both of them were alive and, and and writing in even into the, into the 70s.
00:38:41:18 – 00:39:16:15
Richard
They were key in shaping more of a psychological, astrology, psychologically aware and of course, gain. Richard did a lot to integrate young, young in psychology and and astrology. I have to, acknowledge the person who first taught me how to read a chart and taught me the importance of personal transits, and that was a, and and an artist who came to us on one time named Hardy Tractor Vic, and he showed both Stan Graph and myself how to how to calculate charts as well.
00:39:16:16 – 00:39:41:08
Richard
Before we had, you know, this is this is like in the mid 1970s, 1976. So we didn’t have personal computers with, astrological software. Then, and it took a bit of care and several books, etc. each to calculate each chart, but it was well worth it. And then he taught Ernie Trotter that he taught me, two really valuable things.
00:39:41:21 – 00:40:32:22
Richard
One was that, to pay attention to your transits. And I still believe that if you study your personal transits carefully, day after day, year after year, or at least a few years with that kind of, attentiveness, there is no other, method that is more powerful for mastering astrology because you, you very quickly get a sense for how how the planets, what what they what they mean, how do they come through in your life and how they, how the different aspects, like when sun, the solar return and then sun square Saturn, say sun square Saturn, sun square sun each year, three months later, then sun opposite sun several day
00:40:32:22 – 00:41:08:22
Richard
period, then the next sun. And you see that several years and you go, oh, so that’s how that solar cycle works. And every time the sun conjoins any other planet in your chart, it illuminates it, and you’re going to get more of a sense for what it means. But over time, you get a sense for how Saturn work, going through its big 29.5 year cycle, or, you get a sense for how to evaluate the relative weight of Mars transits versus a, Pluto transit, you know, and so forth.
00:41:08:24 – 00:41:33:12
Richard
And so that’s he taught me, first, the importance of paying attention to personal transits. And then he directed me to two kind of like textbooks or as they used to call them, cookbooks of, of astrology that you could use for the interpretation of your transits. One of them was, Francis of Coin and Louis Ackers, books.
00:41:34:00 – 00:42:00:10
Richard
They had these little booklets, transits of the sun, transits of the moon, transits of Mercury, etc. eventually they put them all into one book called Predictive Astrology. And, that was really useful. But he also pointed me to the great German astrologer Reinhold Albertine. And so Albertine, combinations of, stellar influences is his most, famous book.
00:42:00:10 – 00:42:25:01
Richard
And it’s, it’s for people of an earlier generation. It was a kind of a Bible. We’ve got a more expansive and deepened understanding. But he he was he was crucial, and he had a little, a smaller booklet simply called transits. And then every time each morning I would open up my, I put the birth chart here.
00:42:25:01 – 00:42:47:15
Richard
I’d open up the the transit journal I was keeping, and I would open up the, the ephemeris to see where the planets were on that day. And then I would, have these, textbooks where I could so that I would contemplate what’s happened to me in the last day or the last few days or whatever. And then what transits do I have?
00:42:47:21 – 00:43:11:07
Richard
What do they say are the kinds of things that tend to happen with that transit? And then I would write them down. Writing is very important because then you’re articulating and thinking about it as you articulate, how these symbols are coming to life in your life. In a, in a much and it also is great for self-reflection to self-understanding.
00:43:11:13 – 00:43:34:10
Richard
So I’m very grateful to him. He also gave me a very helpful rule of thumb, for a beginning student, which is if you’re wanting to look at your transits, the first thing to do is just be sure to always see be looking from the time it get. A planet gets three degrees before exact up until exact, because that’s when it’s really going to be especially potent.
00:43:34:12 – 00:44:01:06
Richard
So that’s a very good way of getting an initial sense for how the transits coming through is for those the three degrees just before exact through exact. It was a narrow orb, but it’s really cooking. Then in the long run you get a much more, you know, complex view of the bigger waveform that’s, that’s coming through. And but by then you’ve developed your, your capacity for discernment, your, your archetypal eye, as James Hillman called it.
00:44:01:08 – 00:44:33:14
Richard
And that way you can, you can start to see it on your own. Rob hand came out with planets in transit, a couple of years later. And that that became a third additional source for, helpful, indications of how the transits are going to come through. And then the other big, influences, I would say, well, Charles Harvey, who was the president of the British Astrological Association, he became one of my best friends.
00:44:33:14 – 00:45:14:19
Richard
And and he, he was a master of astrology of almost every much like Rob hand. He had a kind of encyclopedic, overview. And Rob, I became friends with and invited to Iceland, several times to teach there. So they were they were both teachers as well as friends and in those in those years. And finally, Liz Greene as well as, Steven Arroyo, right around the time Rob hand came out with planets and transit, Liz Greene came out with, her first book called Saturn A New Look at an Old Devil, one of her best books.
00:45:14:21 – 00:45:52:11
Richard
And that book, along with Steven Arroyo’s, book called astrology, Karma and Transformation. They, they brought along with Rob hand. They brought a somewhat more, contemporary airy sensibility and vocabulary compared with the if you look at the more at the earlier astrologers, there’s a little bit more kind of quaintness to their vocabulary. And almost as depending on how far back you go, like to Charles Carter or, Alan Leo, it can, Margaret Sloan.
00:45:52:17 – 00:46:16:14
Richard
It can get pretty Victorian, in, in its, way of speaking and some of its judgments. But starting in the 70s, there was this wave that came in of younger astrologers, younger then Rob and Liz Greene, Stephen Arroyo, all of whom were born in the 1940s. They’re in their 30s and and come out with these books or Saturn Return kind of books.
00:46:16:20 – 00:46:39:07
Richard
And, that that really helped, I think, catalyze, a larger generation opening up to astrology. And they, they’ve been, the influences as well that I, that I’m grateful for as well as have collaborated with over the years. So those are some of my, some of my, cherished,
00:46:39:09 – 00:47:08:13
Amanda
Influences either astrology lover. Quick pause. Because I have a very special invitation for you. You are invited to our free live 2025 Forecast Panel event on December 13th, featuring an all star cast of astrologers including Christopher Wrens from Georgia, Stathis, Rick Levine and more so you can uncover the year ahead biggest transits and ensure that you will thrive through 2025.
00:47:08:16 – 00:47:41:12
Amanda
Changing landscape can’t make it live? No worries, we will send you the limited time replay when you register at astrology ABC.com. Slash 2025 forecast. You can also find that link in the show notes. And now back to the episode. So this is kind of a random question, but I was thinking about it today and I was like, I wonder what you would say about this, and I don’t really expect you to have the answer, but I’m just curious to how you would answer this question.
00:47:41:14 – 00:48:19:18
Amanda
So we we incarnate, right? We come into this reality. We forget who we are. We forget so much, and then many of us find astrology and we we start to discover again who we are. Why do you think it works that way? Why do you think we forget in the first place? What is the purpose behind the whole experience of of coming in, forgetting, learning who we are, finding who we are, being who we are, the whole trajectory.
00:48:19:20 – 00:48:49:22
Richard
That’s a great a great question that, I, I have, thoughts about which I’ll, I’ll just share a few, headlines without claiming a, a God’s eye view on this deep matter that transcends our lives in many ways. First of all, by crossing the river of forgetfulness, as we’re as we’re born, as the myths, described it.
00:48:49:24 – 00:49:22:13
Richard
And, and coming in as infants and babies, and seeing the world, everything for the first time, as if for the first time. It’s very important, I think, and and, I mean, if you think about the fact, if you think that we’re all emanations of of the divine, expressing it and coming through and all these different forms and all are in, in each of our, each of our journeys is a is a divine journey.
00:49:22:15 – 00:50:19:03
Richard
And the the trans cosmic godhead, as it were, voluntarily, deliberately eclipses us from it’s it’s consciousness. It’s it’s knowledge of all things in order to have the adventure of of of discovery, of learning, of, of of of, of a moral evolution, of going through tragedy and, and go and falling in love and all sorts of things that would not be available if you were completely in a state of God consciousness all the time, of knowing all, all your past lies and everything and the creativity of the universe seeks out the experience of, of of knowledge and of of not knowing in order to have the, the, the joy of of
00:50:19:03 – 00:50:44:13
Richard
knowing, of discovery. It’s like the, the, the wonderful, Indian, myth of the couple who are deeply in love and they’re sleeping next to each other and they’re dreaming, and they both dream that they, that they have lost each other and are living entire lives and in desolation of not. And then they wake up and there they are.
00:50:44:13 – 00:51:11:04
Richard
And the just the, the tremendous joy that comes from discovering what one has lost. And so it’s partly it’s, it’s partly that for the joy, I think, of, of Discovery week, if, if you start are looking at a film that you’re really engaged by, or reading a novel that is totally absorbing, you don’t just jump to the end.
00:51:11:04 – 00:51:48:22
Richard
So you know what happened and then you start reading. Yeah, you want it to unfold step by step and to enter into that, enter into the drama, which includes not knowing, in order to experience there’s something in the cosmos in, the divine and in the human being that wants to, wants to experience everything. And, also, we’re all on a, spiritual journey that I think takes many lifetimes.
00:51:48:24 – 00:52:16:16
Richard
But in the course of that journey and, and going through the moral and spiritual, transformations, it’s an adventure as well. And there’s many, many joys and sorrows along the way. And that’s part of why we’re here, is to experience all those, so that’s, that’s that’s some of the, some of the thoughts I have about that deep question.
00:52:16:18 – 00:52:36:06
Amanda
Is so curious to hear what you have to say. And you did not disappoint in any way, shape or form. It’s just it’s basically for the joy of it, the joy of discovery, the joy of the adventure, the embodied wisdom that we get to accumulate through time. And and that is the result of experience, right?
00:52:36:08 – 00:53:02:21
Richard
Yeah, yeah. And so it’s the appreciation of, it’s the appreciation of the sheer variety of, of life. Like, think of how nature has given us. You in Hawaii can especially appreciate this. The range of of fruits that and the tastes of different fruits, the papaya, the mango, the peach, the apple, the banana, you know, the blackberry, the blueberry, the the rhubarb, the straw.
00:53:02:23 – 00:53:26:17
Richard
I mean, it’s just you. It’s just amazing. The the splendor of the cornucopia of. And that’s true for religions, cultures, people, animals for just the sheer creative, explosion of the universal creativity. That’s that’s that’s that’s part of what I think is, this is all about.
00:53:27:15 – 00:53:48:20
Amanda
Okay, let’s turn our attention a little bit to the future, keeping everything in mind that you’ve shared, that we’re not predicting, we’re not, trying to understand. So we can control more from the perspective of, of waves and, and a forecast of of the of the weather or the tides. Right.
00:53:48:22 – 00:53:49:17
Richard
Right.
00:53:49:19 – 00:54:21:15
Amanda
So one thing that astrologers are saying is that we’re on the precipice of a time of, of, of change that is almost at a level that humanity hasn’t experienced before, that there are because of these outer planet shifts, there’s going to be massive, massive changes ahead. I would love to get your read on just that. The overarching planetary cycles that you see coming together and influencing us both collectively and individually over the next couple of years.
00:54:21:20 – 00:54:29:17
Amanda
And do you agree with those statements that were that were at a the brink of huge, huge changes like we’ve never seen before?
00:54:29:19 – 00:55:23:06
Richard
Well, you don’t have to be an astrologer just to see that political, economic, social, spiritual, ecological, etc. it’s absolutely fundamental transformation is taking place, a lot of destruction and the possibility of, of, of, of comparable amount of creation, regeneration. But, you know, clearly a and an old age is passing right now. Now I feel that, astrologers have a tendency in, whether they’re talking about in sessions of the outer outer planets into a new sign like Pluto into Aquarius, Neptune into Aries, Uranus into Gemini, that kind of thing.
00:55:25:03 – 00:56:06:21
Richard
They will, pronounce on what those things mean and why it’s such a, a huge thing, but without necessarily having done rigorous research on every other time that these planets have gone into those signs, and I feel that that’s kind of what I aspire to do in Cosmos and Psyche was to take the planetary, cycles of the outer planets, not not going into, into science, into going through the different, so dire call signs, but rather in relationship to each other, which everyone is in agreement with.
00:56:06:23 – 00:56:44:06
Richard
Astronomers, astrologers of all kinds know that a conjunction of Uranus and Neptune, or of Saturn and Pluto or whatever is happening, and it’s not a matter of interpretation, in the way that once you get into, science, first of all, there’s multiple, zodiacs, you know, there’s the, the sidereal zodiac and the, the, tropical zodiac that millions or thousands and thousands of astrologers, hold each one and don’t hold the other one.
00:56:44:08 – 00:57:15:06
Richard
When you get into power systems, there’s multiple house systems, and the partizans for each health system are often are sometimes quite, intense combat about the superiority of theirs, etc. but when you get to the planets, the meanings of the planets, there’s virtually universal consensus about what they mean. All astrologers and getting astrologers to all have consensus on one thing is like herding cats.
00:57:15:08 – 00:57:48:07
Richard
And it’s amazing that that is the case. But that is the reflection of the fact that all astrologers have been seeing. They see the same thing empirically. This is how Mars acts. This is how Uranus or Neptune or Saturn and and yes, there’s different astrologers are better at articulating certain qualities, etc. but there’s, there’s overall consensus about their meanings and also about the, the, the major aspects and the cycles they go through.
00:57:48:09 – 00:58:43:02
Richard
So that’s what I with Cosmos and Psyche. I took that consensus and then showed how, with as much scholarly rigor as I could, here’s how every time that, Uranus and Pluto came through in, conjunction and opposition etc. squares, you could see, see, well, here’s the French Revolution, here’s the 1960s, here’s the period we just went through the so and and then every time Uranus and Neptune, came into alignment of the birth of great religion, the great cultural renaissance, the, the, shifts and, cosmological vision, etc. that tended to happen in coincidence with, with those cycles, the Jupiter Uranus cycles of, bringing waves of sudden awakenings
00:58:43:02 – 00:59:16:21
Richard
and, and successful rebellions and creative breakthroughs and so forth. So that’s kind of rigorous research needs to be done for planets going through signs so that there, there is, systematic every, every time. Here’s, here’s what we see happening in history. And and so otherwise we’re, we’re extrapolating too much from what we think we know about these signs and saying, this is what’s going to happen now that Pluto is going into Aquarius.
00:59:16:23 – 00:59:47:03
Richard
The second thing is, there’s the like, Age of Aquarius, age, the Age of Pisces, etc. and, there’s something I think profound about the signs and profound about the precession of the equinoxes. But there’s again, the tendency you don’t we have to go back, you know, thousands and thousands of years to see a larger pattern. So we don’t have a big empirical data base the way we do with, the outer planets cycles.
00:59:47:09 – 01:00:15:06
Richard
We don’t have that with the big precession of the equinoxes and these big 2000 year ages, and then it becomes a little bit more. Any predictions around that tend to be more prone towards, projections? And so there’s a tendency to idealize Aquarius and, and to, give more of the shadow side of Pisces now that we’re leaving.
01:00:15:07 – 01:00:45:07
Richard
Well, last, we’re leaving this age of Pisces because blah, blah, blah, blah. But now we’re coming into the Age of Aquarius and all these wonderful as if there isn’t light and shadow with every, every sign, every archetypal, principle. So, those are the caveats that I would say. And so looking for, I mean, to me, the things that we can say with the greatest, reliance are, number one, the United States is going through its Pluto return.
01:00:45:09 – 01:01:16:00
Richard
I mean, it’s it’s really tight right now. It’s a huge, you know, 20 year or so process, but it’s really cooking. And so this is the first one we’ve ever had 248 year cycle. And, clearly the U.S is going through a death and rebirth. Or it’s certainly, some kind of dying to an old identity is taking place and a lot of plutonic phenomena have rushed to the surface, as we speak.
01:01:16:15 – 01:01:55:03
Richard
I won’t go into all the details. But anybody with who’s paying attention is quite aware of that. So that Pluto return is almost like this global, influence on on the national psyche and our national fate. But it is also affects the whole world because the United States is like the elephant in the room. And what we that’s why everyone’s paying attention to, what’s happening right now in, in Washington and, the, the US political shifts is taking place because it has such an influence everywhere so that Pluto return.
01:01:55:07 – 01:02:38:07
Richard
And again, so much has to do with what consciousness we bring to it. Because Pluto can be quite the, you know, catastrophically destructive and, only over a long period of time does the, positive regeneration take place. But if we enter into this and this is at every stage, it’s this obligation is there to bring more consciousness, more, you know, more, more self-awareness, more skill in bringing forth the most life enhancing sides of the Pluto archetype, which is, you know, Pluto, Dionysus, Holly, Shakti.
01:02:38:07 – 01:03:08:09
Richard
They’re all part of the Pluto, tale in, in, in Hawaiian mythology, the volcanic goddess. These these are all part of the plutonic energy. There’s Eros, but there’s also, you know, the the strudel. You know, they’re they’re all part of the the very powerful, elemental life and death forces that are at work with Pluto. And so that’s that’s an enormous, part of what we’re going through.
01:03:08:09 – 01:03:32:19
Richard
And we’ll certainly shape the next couple of years. What you were directing me to, to comment on, but we’re also entering into our Uranus return, and this is, this will be our third Uranus return. The first one happened with the Civil war. And the birth of, of an, of of a of a new, level of freedom, as Lincoln put it.
01:03:34:10 – 01:04:14:19
Richard
And, the second one happened in, at the time of the Second World War. And the US is kind of entry into the world on a whole nother level of, of, significance and, and a role it would play internationally. And so this is our third one. And it’s going to be very interesting to watch, and particularly in, in, about 3 or 4 years will when Jupiter and Uranus and Pluto move into a grand trine, more or less right on our natal the US’s natal Uranus trine Pluto because Uranus returned back to its natal position.
01:04:15:00 – 01:04:45:15
Richard
Pluto return back to its natal position. There are trine right now in the sky. So they’re really, flowing with each other. But they’re, they’re they’re moving right into the positions where they were in 1776. So by the time we get to, 20, 28 or so, they’re going to be both right within orb, and then Jupiter will move into the Grand Trine for for several months, which would be kind of fun to see how that comes through.
01:04:46:20 – 01:05:24:01
Richard
The Saturn Neptune conjunction is a world transit that is, it first started coming into, orbit within ten degrees during this, this, this year. And, it’s going to be getting stronger and stronger, until it gets, you know, moves into exactitude, these next couple of years, it’ll be a very strong influence. And Saturn and Neptune, I mean, it does have a lot to do with, like, things to do with water flooding, and, drought and, and a lot of that’s been very intense this year.
01:05:24:13 – 01:05:59:15
Richard
But at a more spiritual level, it can be both a challenging transit. There can be, you know, the sense of discouragement, demoralization, sense of a, a dream, lost or, or an ideal is, has been, cut off, but it also, permits the possibility of great, spiritual focus, a kind of focused, disciplined consciousness that you can bring to to anything you have to where you direct your consciousness.
01:05:59:15 – 01:06:47:17
Richard
It’s very good for meditation, for prayer, for, inward, self-reflection. It’s also, can be extremely supportive of activities on behalf of healing, healing, health, mental for both mental health and physical health. It can be at its very noblest. It can it can bring forth a profound sense of of how our lives are, can be devoted to the, the and that enactment of our highest ideals into the most practical, concrete parts of our lives.
01:06:47:19 – 01:07:16:19
Richard
And that effort to bridge the gap between Neptune and Saturn, as it were, between the ideal and the real, between, our our spiritual aspirations and how we live our lives in concrete ways, etc. and, and at a, at its deepest level, it can give a sense of how the divine is incarnating in this world. Yeah, in the pain of birth, labor.
01:07:17:17 – 01:07:57:05
Richard
But it is, something is coming. Lincoln, who was born with the Saturn Neptune conjunction and very powerfully, expressed it in things like the just read the short Gettysburg Address or the, second Inaugural Address. Two of his most immortal, brief, eloquent statements. And they they are filled with Saturn, Neptune, spiritual depth and, profundity. Wisdom that only comes from somebody who has lived through a life, as he did of of bearing that Saturn, Neptune, in a very deep and poignant way.
01:07:57:11 – 01:08:35:14
Richard
So those are a few things about the, the Saturn, Neptune certainly going to be lush technological advances just galloping along with this Pluto trine Uranus. And I think a lot of creativity is available to humanity right now. Yeah, it is. The Pluto brings in the evolutionary energies, but Uranus is that relates to that kind of Promethean creativity and novelty and sudden new ideas and an impulse to to create a new future and so forth.
01:08:35:14 – 01:08:57:07
Richard
And let’s hope that the better angels of our nature can, can, come to, activity in that in those ways and, and bring that kind of creativity to the, to the creation of, of a new, a new world, a new heaven and a new earth as, as the, as the biblical words put it.
01:08:58:23 – 01:09:13:00
Amanda
Okay. On that note, in terms of technological advances, you know, I and all these things that are coming on the scene in a huge way, how do you see that impacting the field of astrology?
01:09:13:02 – 01:09:39:23
Richard
Of course, technology in various ways has made astrology much more accessible to many more people. And I imagine there’s going to be many more programs like, archetypal explorer is showing, you know, giving graphics for people’s transits or the, you know, the great software, like solar fire and astro gold and so forth, that will just keep improving.
01:09:39:23 – 01:10:23:16
Richard
But just so how social media and the internet just allows many, many more people to be to encounter astrology. The quality of astrology that they encounter is very much up for grabs. And so that’s that’s why, you know, I think you’re, you’re, you’re working at, at bringing in, a astrologers who, who can bring in more than a stereotypical sun sign horoscope column, kind of, knowledge of astrology and bring it to a, in this generation that is so interested and more open to astrology than ever before.
01:10:23:18 – 01:10:51:10
Richard
So they’re exposed to a, a the nobility of a of a of a great discipline rather than this kind of cartoon version of it. So technology can serve that. But it could, it could, it can go both ways with the, AI is obviously, going to be deployed more and more in almost every sphere. And that’s obviously got a huge, huge shadow potential.
01:10:51:12 – 01:11:32:19
Richard
It in good hands, it can be skillfully deployed. But, that’s that’s a big if. And so what I would counsel or urge us all as astrologers to keep in mind is that you need the human being to be part of the interpretive process. At a certain point, yes, we can learn things from, you know, I can give us, a quick survey of a lot of things that that have been said about a particular question, that we’ve got an issue, astrological principle or whatever, and that can be very useful.
01:11:32:19 – 01:12:06:18
Richard
Just like looking at an encyclopedia can be very useful. But when it comes to a full on, deep interpretation of what’s going on in your life with your personal birth chart, all that you’ve gone through and what your transits are and the relation you need. The, presence of a human interpreter who brings in, this, capacity for symbolic discernment and, a capacity for the depth of meaning that can exist in any, anything.
01:12:06:18 – 01:12:42:23
Richard
Because remember that AI is ultimately it’s, it’s it’s looking at digits, you know, like zero one, zero one and, and and turning it miraculously into, into meanings from all the words that it has scanned so quickly and, and brought forth a particular gestation. Excuse me, a crystallization. The gist of of what it has taken in, but it’s going to be that’s going to be at a, at a shallower level and never, never will be more nuanced.
01:12:43:06 – 01:13:29:08
Richard
As nuanced as, sensitive to the particular and sensitive to the multiple levels of meaning that exist in any given phenomenon. That’s going to be off the radar screen for AI. And so, like all technologies, it’s a two edged sword. And, there’s always the peril with the great technological prowess of, catalyzing a kind of sorcerer’s apprentice, you know, like Mickey Mouse and Fantasia where he’s fooling around with these magical powers and things get out of control, which is basically what our civilization is dealing with right now on the Earth.
01:13:30:18 – 01:13:37:24
Richard
So that’s the that’s the caveat with, I would say with, with the technological advance in, in astrology.
01:13:38:01 – 01:14:15:22
Amanda
It reminds me of what you were saying earlier about one of the pitfalls that you found yourself even in, in your early years in astrology, that taking what you knew at the time, and then extrapolating that this, you know, this always means this or this always means that. And it’s only with experience and time and being exposed in many, many different ways that these archetypes can manifest, that you’re able to cultivate a level of sensitivity and nuance and what I’m hearing you say is that you’re you don’t think I will be able to do that in the same way that a human could.
01:14:15:24 – 01:14:59:24
Richard
Right? Because the AI is going to be working with generalizations on the. Well, in the end, it’s a relationship with the particular the particular person with their unique, their unique life and their unique set of circumstances. And then you’re bringing your own uniqueness of experience, etc. that’s why it’s good to get multiple readings from as many good astrologers as you can, because each good astrologer is bringing a different life experience and different forms of astrological expertise, different psychological, capacities, etc. to unpacking your chart and your transits and so and progressions and everything else.
01:14:59:24 – 01:15:26:23
Richard
So that’s why, no, no one interpretation, or one astrologer is going to be able to do, as well as many, but one, one wise, sensitive astrologer will certainly, do better than, just, you know, technological, machine is going to, produce even though there could be some very worthwhile information that could come from AI.
01:15:27:04 – 01:16:03:02
Amanda
Yes. Okay. Rick. So for people out there looking ahead to 2025 and 2026, anticipating some of these big changes, this big bird that we’re in the process of, we’re in labor, right? We’re birthing a new version of ourselves, of humanity itself. What qualities of being do you think will serve us the most? What things within ourselves can we cultivate and keep in mind as we continue into the future for whatever that ends up looking like?
01:16:03:04 – 01:16:51:22
Richard
First, I think, one thing that’s going to be important is to have a certain trust in a larger process that’s unfolding, and so that involves a level of, of hope, which is not simple optimism, because in a way, simple optimism isn’t justified. Hope is more of a, the spiritual virtue. That is not just a pass of I’m hoping, I’m hoping, I’m hoping this that it’s it’s it’s an act of intervention in which you invite the future to bring forth from the present a, a a more joyful, life enhancing result.
01:16:51:24 – 01:17:26:18
Richard
It’s it’s a our emotions, our thoughts have effects. Even if we don’t say anything to, you know, to anybody or it just but within it, it ripples out and, the, the act of hope is one that actually helps bring forth a new horizon, a new possibility. It’s it’s not just a passive receptivity. And it takes, it takes a certain faith in the darkness to be able to do that.
01:17:27:04 – 01:18:08:03
Richard
So that’s, that’s that’s one thing that, I think bears cultivating. And I think that’s, that’s done in relationship with others and, and community and having a sense that, you’re not doing this by yourself as some, you know, individual hero. But, we’re because we need the support of others, and others need our support. And, and so, being able to find joy in working with others, for, the, the, the for a larger good in, in to emerge in the future.
01:18:08:07 – 01:18:45:22
Richard
That’s that’s key. And connected to that is, a capacity for, for, for deepening compassion. And compassion is, is something that sometimes requires us to go through, hard times and suffering ourselves in order to be able to, see what another person’s going through and, and to feel within, you know, compassion, feel with that person, what the what they’re going through.
01:18:45:22 – 01:19:23:00
Richard
And, and then and to basically recognize that anything that anybody’s going through anywhere we’re going through in a certain way because we’re we’re not ultimately separated from this is a lot of the of our, our, our problems today come from. So too narrow a sense of our identity and recognizing that our identity is wide and deep and, and, embraces the whole and whatever’s happening anywhere else, is also, we’re there in a certain way and it’s happening within us.
01:19:23:02 – 01:19:48:08
Richard
So that and then to, I guess, the last thing I would just say is each of us has our own particular, gifts that, that no one else has quite in the way that we have it. And, each of us is on a journey that is ours alone. Like that beautiful line from the Grateful Dead’s, wonderful album, American Beauty.
01:19:48:16 – 01:20:24:05
Richard
This think it’s from the song ripple. This this path is for your steps alone. And taking that path that is ultimately our own individual path and taking the gifts that are our own individual gifts and then being faithful to those gifts and and, cultivating them and, and not letting them lie fallow, but working hard, to to have them bear fruit in the world.
01:20:25:04 – 01:20:56:01
Richard
To stay true to your path, to stay true to your disciplines, to stay true to your, your studies, your efforts. Your your noble projects and, to keep with it, with a kind of, faithfulness to, to to that individuality in, in yourself. Because ultimately, see, the the cosmos is coming through each of us in an individuated way.
01:20:56:05 – 01:21:36:23
Richard
We’re not just one way. I described it as we’re not just each in our own potted. We’re not plants in our own pots separate from each other. We’re all planted in the earth, and the earth has brought forth the the the earth has brought forth the these plants. And we’re each flowering. And that Jungian idea of we’re all on a path of individuation is a recognition that, the entire creativity of the universe is individuated through us and that our, our task is to similar tenuously, bring to flower.
01:21:37:00 – 01:22:05:19
Richard
It’s the idea of flowering is essential to to the, this idea of individuation. It’s not just me, me, me being myself. It’s, the cosmos itself being itself through me in that individuated way. And to be to be true to that and to be faithful to it and to to sustain your, the cultivation of your of your gifts in collaboration with others.
01:22:05:19 – 01:22:25:05
Richard
Find what you’re find what you’re what you’re good at, what you’re what you take joy in doing. And then, and then bring forth, with others in the, in the joy of collaboration. Your, your best efforts. I think that’s, that’s going to make a big difference.
01:22:26:13 – 01:22:56:23
Amanda
Okay. We that’s so helpful. Thank you. We had the honor of hosting you and your lovely daughter in a class that you taught for our, for our community called your astrological initiation. It was one of the things I loved the most was getting to interact and and see the interaction between you and your daughter, which was just delightful.
01:22:57:00 – 01:23:06:23
Amanda
What inspired that class, that particular perspective that you brought and who who were you hoping to serve with with that offering through us?
01:23:07:00 – 01:23:29:13
Richard
Well, thank you for those words about it. And of course, you made it possible by inviting us to do it. And, we we we took the opportunity, I think it was four hours long and, we, we really, because, you know, we’re both professors and we both, and, we had a lot to, to pack into a short time.
01:23:29:13 – 01:24:08:10
Richard
So we, we kind of were in a, in a sprint for the, for the whole thing. But I think we both felt really good about it. And it’s, I think we, we both take joy in working with each other. It was quite, quite unexpected how Becca just suddenly just flowered as a, you know, I, I knew she’d be really good at whatever she turned her attention to, but, she suddenly became, a superb astrologer and with great, direct, archetypal insight and, teaching capacity and so forth.
01:24:08:10 – 01:24:35:10
Richard
So that that was a joy to work with her and and really to be, partners in, in doing that. So that was two years ago, I think, this fall. And, I think the people that we were most we were both conscious going into it, it’s like, here’s our, here’s an opportunity that we’re being given to say something to a lot of astrology teachers who are part of the Astrology Hub community.
01:24:36:05 – 01:25:02:15
Richard
And in certain ways, the state of astrology right now out in the wide world is, it’s it’s kind of the Wild West in certain ways. There’s just so many different, schools and teachings and, techniques and so forth. And we thought it was be important to take the time for people both at the very beginning of their, their journey.
01:25:03:00 – 01:25:30:06
Richard
But also further along, like initiation is something that’s a long process. It’s not just like, you know, crossing the one threshold. It’s, it’s a, it’s it’s a longer journey. So we are hoping to, reach not only, beginners, but also people who could be, you know, pretty advanced and, but might not have thought of of some of the things that we had to say.
01:25:30:08 – 01:25:59:08
Richard
And so what we wanted to set out is, first of all, some of the major, ways in which we thought it would be good to how to approach the mystery of astrology and the gift of it and the responsibility of it, because astrologers have a great responsibility when people come to you, they’re they’re listening in a sense for, well, what’s what’s the cosmic will say about me and my life, you know?
01:25:59:08 – 01:26:49:04
Richard
And so that’s why it’s so important to bring in a kind of, ethical integrity and psychological self-knowledge to every one of your readings. So we wanted to, first, emphasize and bring the importance and gift of what? And privilege of what it is to be an astrologer, but then to go into what are the most, most, significant fundamentals that we feel you as an astrologer, should, should know or have a, be cultivating, a knowledge knowledge of in order to be of service to others, but even to be of service to yourself and, and, of astrology.
01:26:49:06 – 01:27:32:14
Richard
And so we, we, we took those, those hours to just go over as many of the most important, principles and suggestions and, and, tips, practical tips as well as, you know, more, psychological and spiritual, attitudes and so forth, that would be important to have in pursuing one’s astrological journey. So that that’s that’s where we were coming from on, on that and, that day and, we and I think we did I think we did a follow up, couple of hours maybe with, Q and A but and, which I thought was valuable too.
01:27:32:14 – 01:27:49:17
Richard
And so we felt very good about the, about the experience and enjoyed it a lot. And, it looked like from the comments that we, we received, that it was well received. And so we were joyful about that too.
01:27:49:23 – 01:28:13:15
Amanda
Yes, yes. All right. So for any of you who missed to that, we are doing our Black Friday 40% off sale right now. This will be a great one to, to, add to your astrological library at this great price. We don’t we don’t discount ever at this level. So if you are interested in it, it’s an amazing, amazing class.
01:28:13:17 – 01:28:40:23
Amanda
Just we’re going to put the link in the show notes. We’re going to put the link to lots of different all the things that we can find links for that Rick’s talked about today, some of the books, some of the articles, you know, all the different, resources that he shared. So make sure you check out those show notes, the URL to find the whole Black Friday sale, including your astrological initiation with Rick and Becca Tarnas is astrology app.com/academy, so you can go check that out.
01:28:40:23 – 01:29:14:05
Amanda
Get your 40% off and add this one to your library. It’s it’s the kind of class that you will want to revisit over and over, and it just be a good time to take advantage of it right now. If you’re interested. Okay. With all that, said Rick, if there was one piece of guidance that you would want to offer to aspiring astrology ers, to astrology enthusiasts, to humans that just happened to take a chance on this episode today, as we move into the future, what would that be?
01:29:14:07 – 01:29:55:03
Richard
You know, one thing, I think I could say is to to not fall into that kind of, dullness of taking for granted what astrology is and what what it’s coming into your life. It doesn’t come into everybody’s lives. It’s it’s it’s a, it’s an invitation from the cosmos. It’s a it’s a gift. And and to hold that gift with, with respect and reverence and and and creative joy and also to,
01:29:55:05 – 01:30:34:00
Richard
To contemplate what it means. Because in some sense, astrology allows us to enter into dialog with a conversation with the soul of the universe. It’s like the soul of the universe has has a language, and that language has been, evolved in a way that we human beings can participate in through the entire, historical lineage of astrology and all the astrologers that have, cultivated these fields.
01:30:34:02 – 01:31:12:04
Richard
And so, to realize that we, we we’ve were we’ve been, given this privilege of coming into a conversation with the depths of, of the universe in order to live more consciously, more, with, with greater skillfulness, greater intelligence. And also, it’s this gift that allows us to see that the universe is in some sense paying attention to to us as human beings, as individuals.
01:31:12:04 – 01:31:49:23
Richard
It’s it’s caring for us. It’s the Earth itself seems to be a moving focus of cosmic meaning. And not just a, another random speck of dust going through the universe. And perhaps every part of the universe is a center of cosmic meaning. But clearly we are human beings or have been given this possibility of through our own, long cognitive development and capacity with the telescope to see and into to the, the the heavens.
01:31:49:23 – 01:32:32:22
Richard
And we’re we we’ve been given this potential for participating in the creative unfolding of the universe. In a way that is, beyond beyond compare. And just taking that in is, I think, can bring such a sense of, of both gratitude and also inspiration to, to devote oneself with, with care, with, the hard work that goes into it with the, the, the sense of the responsibility that you’re, holding this gift with as you, bring it to others and mediate their understanding.
01:32:33:06 – 01:32:42:12
Richard
So those are a few words about parting. Parting thoughts about about what, the astrological life is all about.
01:32:43:12 – 01:33:05:14
Amanda
We ended in a very similar way to we as we started by contemplated this relationship that we are in with the soul of the universe, as you say. And I just love that so much. Rick. This has been such a joy, such a pleasure. I will we will cherish your words, cherish your guidance. Thank you so much.
01:33:05:14 – 01:33:37:00
Amanda
It’s just so beautiful to have you, someone who has so much experience, so much wisdom, so much practice to to share your perspective with all of us. So thank you for this offering. Thank you for this gift. Thanks to all of you for receiving it. I hope that you have found value in it. I hope that you take in, some of the things that Rick has shared here today and that you weave it into the way that you approach astrology and approach your learning and approach your life.
01:33:37:02 – 01:33:39:05
Amanda
So, Rick, thank you so much. Once again.
01:33:39:06 – 01:33:40:13
Richard
Welcome. You’re welcome.
01:33:40:15 – 01:33:57:01
Amanda
It’s been a pleasure. It’s been a pleasure. Go and check out his course. We again, we’re going to put the links to many of the things as many of the things that we can find that Rick referred to here today. We’ll put the links in the show notes. And, in the meantime, thank you everybody, for tuning in.
01:33:57:01 – 01:34:17:14
Amanda
And thank you for being curious. Thank you for caring. Thank you for for accepting the invitation from the universe to explore astrology and go on this adventure with us. And thank you, as always, for making astrology a part of your life. And we’ll catch you on the next episode. Take care everybody! Well friends, I hope you enjoyed this episode.
01:34:17:16 – 01:34:41:04
Amanda
What more? Make sure you’re signed up for our Cosmic Insider newsletter. It’s free! Delivered every Monday. Includes links to all the episodes. Plus, you’ll get a heads up on the cosmic weather ahead. Just go to Astrology Subcommittee Insider. Don’t forget to like and subscribe to our channel to help us reach more astrology lovers like you. And finally, follow us on socials.
01:34:41:10 – 01:34:48:15
Amanda
You can find us on Instagram x, TikTok or Facebook for daily astrological guidance. See you soon!
- Aquarius Weekly Horoscope | November 25th – December 1st 2024
https://astronomologer.com/aquarius-weekly-horoscope-november-25th-december-1st-2024/ - Sagittarius Weekly Horoscope | November 25th – December 1st 2024
https://astronomologer.com/sagittarius-weekly-horoscope-november-25th-december-1st-2024/ - Libra Weekly Horoscope | November 25th – December 1st 2024
https://astronomologer.com/libra-weekly-horoscope-november-25th-december-1st-2024/
